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Comments on: The Decorum of Objects http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/ thuswise to swerve Sat, 12 Oct 2013 18:11:29 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.25 By: getting things done in/with object-oriented rhetoric | digital digs http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-1145 Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:34:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-1145 […] James Brown has a good piece discussing his thoughts on object-oriented rhetoric. He brings in two key concepts, Lanham's concept of the oscillation between looking at/through a text, and Bogost's carpentry, from his forthcoming Alien Phenomenology. Of Bogost, Brown writes […]

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By: Anonymous http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-722 Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:55:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-722 This is a great answer to the “harm” question:

If motion influences action, and action in turn has an effect on motion, by not being open to the surprising nature of things, we are attempting to do rhetoric in a vacuum (i.e., rhetoric as it happens only between human subjects) by turning a blind eye to the objects that make up the rhetorical scene. Instead, rhetoric occurs among the desks, the garbage, and the pollution of a busy city street. Each of these objects has their own rhythm by which they affect each other but also by which they affect us.

And I think I’ll cite it at the conference!

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By: Nathan Gale http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-721 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:38:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-721 Jim,

I really like what you’re doing here with Lanham, Harman, and especially Bogost’s new book.

And I wonder if the notion of *receptivity* might help in answering this question of “harm.” If we couch the discussion in terms of alterity, I would argue (along with Jane Bennett) that in allowing ourselves to be “open to the surprising nature of things” we are forced to see ourselves as both human and nonhuman. Or, in Burkean terms, we find in ourselves moments of motion coupling, linking, or assembling with moments of action. So for example, the Texas heat takes its toll on my car air conditioning until one morning it breaks. Driving to a job interview, I’m now not only nervous because of the interview, but I’m also sweaty and perhaps a little overheated. If we look at this example in terms of motion/action, we begin to see that the air conditioner (motion) could very well influence my interview (action), which in turn could make my stomach even more nervous and queasy (motion), causing me to perform poorly at my interview (action).

If I had to answer the “harm” question, then, it would go something like this: If motion influences action, and action in turn has an effect on motion, by not being open to the surprising nature of things, we are attempting to do rhetoric in a vacuum (i.e., rhetoric as it happens only between human subjects) by turning a blind eye to the objects that make up the rhetorical scene. Instead, rhetoric occurs among the desks, the garbage, and the pollution of a busy city street. Each of these objects has their own rhythm by which they affect each other but also by which they affect us.

Anyway, keep it up. I can’t wait to see how you connect all of these thoughts with the BFB.

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By: Scot Barnett http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-720 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:02:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-720 Yeah–I heard you gesturing toward ethics at the end. Should be interesting to hear Diane’s response. I, for one, think there’s some connections to be made between her work–and the work she draws on–and the kind of ethics OOO opens the way to. 

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By: Anonymous http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-719 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:23:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-719 Thanks, Scot.

I agree that the question of “harm” is an important one. In fact, the responses to my line of questioning in the working group has already elicited these questions: What’s at stake in developing an OOR? Why would we want to do this? In addition, some members of the group have openly stated their “discomfort” with a discussion of rhetoric outside the realm of the human.

And I also agree that an answer (for me, the most important answer) to this question has to do with ethics. As I say at the end of the paper, rhetoric has always attended to the motives of the other. OOR suggests that we extend that project to the non-human realm. I think Levi’s new book should help as well…especially given rhetoric’s relationship to “democracy” (vexed as it is).

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By: Scot Barnett http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-718 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:05:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-718 Thanks for posting this, Jim. I really like where you’re going with this. And I especially like the connections you draw between Lanham, Harman, and Bogost. This sentence in particular is pure gold, man: “Rhetorical carpentry would construct objects (and conversations among objects) in order to demonstrate approximations of the strange, alien conversations happening around us.” Love it! I can’t wait to read Ian’s book.

My main question at this point, though, gets back to the audience thing. I can see a reader–let’s say a skeptical reader–coming away from this and asking: Nice thought experiment, but why exactly would we want to go down the OOR road? Obviously, you only have so much space to present your position here, but I’m coming to believe that this question is really the one we need to push early and often. Our attempt at “doing OOR” for our RSA panel is, I think, one potential response to the question. But I still feel like we need more. In Free Culture, Lessig notes that his failure to successfully argue against copyright law before the Supreme Court stemmed from his inability to articulate “the harm” copyright commits on culture and creativity. So, I guess what I’m asking is: what’s the harm that OOR is responding to? Why go down this road in the first place, except to show that it’s possible?

Again, lots of answers to this question. One, in my view, concerns ethics: by agreeing to “address” beings as tool-beings, we agree, in a Heideggerian sense, to let the other be. In this sense, OOR, perhaps, promises one of the boldest responses to date to instrumentalism and, paradoxically, the tendency to objectify beings–humans and nonhumans alike.

Regardless of how we individually respond to the “harm question,” I think we need to be prepared at the very least to speak to that question. If nothing else, then for readers who will naturally remain skeptical of anything resembling OOR.

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By: dmf http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-717 Wed, 14 Sep 2011 00:51:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-717 I see , for me thinking (and the tools/units that make it possible)  about is a use/end whether or not we follow up on it in other ways/assemblages, and of course if we choose to share our thoughts with others…
safe travels

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By: Ian Bogost http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-716 Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:52:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-716 I don’t really require that kind of usefulness or Rortian/Davidsonian pragmatism. It’s enough for me just to think about objects. That certainly doesn’t foreclose the potential application of this approach, but it’s also not a requirement. I mean “pragmatist” in a very mundane sense: allowing us to talk about particular objects, not just at the first principles level.

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By: dmf http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-715 Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:18:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-715 “Any conversation (not just conversations about OOR or OOP or OOO) will
have to be grounded in a “satisfactory” zone of good enough, but that
ground will shift depending on audience, context, changing facts, etc.”

indeed (I would say that there is no other to rhetoric, or as Isabelle Stengers might say “interest”) but how does this fit into OOO as opposed to fitting (making use of) OOO in/to this?  yes, all this is speculation, we are making it up as we go, such is life no?
thanks for your hospitality

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By: Anonymous http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/2011/09/12/the-decorum-of-objects/comment-page-1/#comment-714 Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:16:00 +0000 http://clinamen.jamesjbrownjr.net/?p=458#comment-714 It all depends on audience and the particulars of the study, as far as I’m concerned. A specific example: I’m working on a project that uses OOR to discuss the Benjamin Franklin Bridge. This is part of a conference proposal for the Rhetoric Society of America conference. All of the folks on our panel will be looking at the history of the bridge via OOR, how engineers and architects fought over its design, etc. A traditional approach in rhetorical studies would be to analyze how people talked about the bridge. An OOR approach would ask different questions. My presentation will look at how the bridge’s architect, Paul Cret, conceived of the bridge as a collaboration amongst materials – stone and steel have different “spirits” for Cret, and he was collaborating with these materials to build the bridge. Cret was *doing* OOR when designing the bridge, attempting to make sense of what it is like to *be* stone or steel and also trying to craft a structure (carpentry) that expressed an alien existence.
All of this is speculation. All of this is just an attempt to ask different questions and tell different stories. Good enough for who/what is *always* the question. As a rhetorician, I don’t see this as a problem to get around. I see it as a starting point. In other words, rhetoric is first philosophy. Any conversation (not just conversations about OOR or OOP or OOO) will have to be grounded in a “satisfactory” zone of good enough, but that ground will shift depending on audience, context, changing facts, etc.

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